Curiouser and curiouser

[jemz]

Because I am curious about writing fanfic and not because I had too much fun with the ticky boxes, I want to know your thoughts. Feel free to comment about your thoughts. Elaborate, explicate, or just expound. No, I was not reading the E section of the dictionary today. I did that yesterday. :-P



[Poll #943206]

So how do you deal with concrit? Or trying to give concrit to a writer who doesn't really listen? Either from a writer's or a reader's perspective.

I remember going to a panel workshop on writing held by ponderosa121 (and a few others whose names escape me) and sitting next to someone who blatantly ignored a lot of what they were saying about writing and saying her own point of view. She brought an interesting point of view in which she wrote for herself and no one else and doesn't need a beta. It's a waste of time. But she didn't take any of the concrit to be a better writer since she really had no interest in becoming a better writer.

I dunno. I just remember being frustrated by her careless dismissal of genuine efforts to get her to look at her writing skills as something to be constantly worked upon as a writer. I thought Pond and the others handled it very well. I thought then and there, if I ever write anything, I definately want to improve my writing.

Any thoughts?

:/ I think I am just rambling again. Need more tea.

Comments

[yuusada.livejournal.com]

If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will!

[swtjemz.livejournal.com]

And then, all your bases belong to me.

[happiestwhen.livejournal.com]

I don't understand people who can be so completely satisfied with their writing that they wouldn't want to improve on it. For me, that's why I'm always writing more, because I haven't hit the note I want, I haven't developed the idea completely, I haven't reached a successful conclusion. If I were perfectly content with how I'd written, then that would mean I'd written the perfect story, which is sort of impossible. I guess it's hard for me to comprehend people who have such low expectations for themselves? Why be satisfied with just that, especially when beta-readers and concrit are such easy ways to improve.

[swtjemz.livejournal.com]

I don't understand either.

I like reading other writers who really try to stretch their writing skills, like you or several other writers I follow. And I tend to like the tone of a fic but not when there is major grammatical errors or strange characterizations tripping me up along the way.

I've encountered a few writers who would just write and write and then post it up without bothering to fix any grammatical or logistical errors. Why putting it up when you really don't care for comments at all? And then fight others when they give concrit and think your piece is utterly perfect when it is glaringly NOT perfect.

:( Is it low expectations or just an unwillingness to put effort into something they think is just for fun? Or even both? idek but it makes Sai sad.

[happiestwhen.livejournal.com]

That's the other thing, the "for fun" argument. I've seen a lot of people use it when they get defensive over their decision to not fix typos or accept concrit or seek out a beta reader. They say, "It's just fanfiction. It's just for fun." And I guess maybe I have a different definition of fun because part of the fun of fandom and writing fic for me is the potential to really write something stellar, or at least strive to. It's rewarding for me to get positive feedback, and also get negative feedback that allows me to do better next time.

"I'm just here for fun" sounds like such a lazy excuse, and you don't see any writers saying that in response to praise for their writing, so obviously they do like feeding their ego with good comments, but it's like they don't want to push their talent and see if it could take them even further.

I don't think fandom has to be workworkwork all the time, but why does "fun" have to mean slacking off and producing stuff of sucky quality? :\ It's not fun to me to know I'm just settling.

[swtjemz.livejournal.com]

D: I definately think the "for fun" is a lazy writer's excuse not to go back and fix, the minimum, grammatical errors. Because if it was really for fun, the writer wouldn't post it.

I've written things just to write them and never have them posted because I don't think it was a good quality piece and written for fun. I'm not a writer by nature so I find it hard to find the words to fit the tone I want in a piece. If I ever put out a piece of fic, I want to be satisfied that it was a piece that I am proud of. Since it shows the level of my writing ability at that point. When I look back on my writing, I see the evolution/maturation of my skills in writing.

If it's a hobby that I enjoy, I want to be the best I can be in that hobby and not give lackluster effort. Otherwise, why do it as a hobby?

It really sucks to scroll by stories by names of authors whom you know isn't improving their writing skills or writing quality stories and know you're settling omg, pit of voles.

[swtjemz.livejournal.com]

omg, pit of voles.

I know html, I swear! *facepalm*

[ilanala]

I tend to only give concrit if people ask for it. I'm a pretty harsh beta sometimes, and I'll point out typos in finished fic, but I generally won't do serious concrit because people either ignore it or get annoyed. (And I didn't check the box about flailing, but I'll sometimes do that if the author is a friend and I really liked the fic and feel comfortable enough to flail.)

As for improving my writing...I do want to write things I can look back at without cringing, but I also write for fun, so there's a balance between wanting to write something good and not wanting to devote too much time to fixing up something. I mostly do my own editing, since I don't tend to have grammar or structure issues that I don't pick up myself, but if I'm unsure about a fic, I may ask someone to read it for me. I don't tend to do extensive rewriting, though.

I checked that I liked all three points of view on that question, but that's not really true. I've written a couple fics in second person, so I can't say I don't like it, but I think it's something that only works on very rare occasions. First person I generally don't like for fic as much as for original writing, but either way I'm very finicky about it. So mostly I like third person, if only because it's the most appropriate for a lot of pieces, I think, and is also the hardest to really mess up.

And I'm babbling, but I guess my point would be that I think people should try to improve as writers, but I can understand not wanting concrit on a specific piece of writing if it's not something you want to rewrite and fix up (although general concrit on style, etc. would still be useful there). The "I write for myself" thing is a poor excuse, though, because if you really write only for yourself, why are you posting your writing for other people to read and comment on? And even if you do write purely for yourself, don't you want to write yourself something good? That's an attitude I really don't understand.

[swtjemz.livejournal.com]

I agree with a lot of points you made.

I get so frustrated sometimes in trying to help and give concrit and the other person won't take it, whether it's grammatical or on the tone of their piece. And they post a one shot fic EVERY DAY.

and I wonder if they are improving, due to the sheer amount of fic they are writing, or stagnating, due to the fics all sounding exactly the same with the same characterizations especially since all the fics are in first person. I am very picky about first person since it is incredibly hard to do well. But when it's done well, it's utterly fantastic.

Thanks for your comment!

[bluntedge.livejournal.com]

TickyTickyTickyTickyTickyTickyTicky. ♥

*ahem*

... I deal poorly with criticism. XD" But then again, I'm mine own worst critic. So I technically deal poorly with myself. Hmm... of course, I do not write full-out stories either. I should stop talking about myself when I do not know where I am going with this, eh?

Anyway, I do not provide concrit unless asked, and even then, very conservatively. Because I suppose the artists' ego is a delicate thing, and criticizing the fruits of their creative labour seems too harsh if they really put the effort into it. Besides, in the case of people who do not listen to concrit, why bother wasting time and thought on how they can improve when it falls on deaf ears? Some people just like going to panels to show off what they believe to be their "expertise" in a certain area, as far as I know anyway. :/

... where was my point again? BAH. See, this is why I am a shitty writer, I never know where I am going with things. XD"

[swtjemz.livejournal.com]

hahah...twiggy ♥!!!

I ramble a lot and go off on tangents all the time, so don't worry!

Hmmmm...but if they ask for it in the first place, it's really frustrating to give it and then be blown off with the excuse "I don't care. I'm writing for myself and for fun."

[gimmick-game.livejournal.com]

When it comes down to having 4 experienced writers try to be nice and give you advice to help you improve, and you blatantly ignore it all times...nothing is going to help.

I've been in a lot of fandoms. I've written for a lot of fandoms, one of them being the most wanked in existance (luckily I always stayed under the radar). Unfortunately, it seems like instead of apreciating constructive critisicm from seasoned writers like other fandoms, some decide to play the "fun" card and keep spewing shit. I myself refuse to post anything unless I am drastically happy with it. You know, you've been my beta through most of it.


I've given up on offering any more constructive criticism in my current fandom. Unless I see someone who has talent and will, and just the lack of someone to help, then I'm staying out of it.

[ex-crystalle432.livejournal.com]

i like to make fun of badfic. that makes me a horrible, horrible person, but it keeps me out of the bars.

also, i want a bumper sticker that says "i only ticky for hot asian boybands."

regarding the writing, i probably fall into that "write for myself" category, but i do not post my fics on communities and my fic journal is covered with disclaimers (ex., i do not like concrit) so i'm not forcing anyone to read anything. except maybe my j-porn, but it's just my flist and i care a little bit about what they think. my excuse is not that i think i am oh so awesome and never make mistakes, but that i am my own worst critic and i will not post anything that has not been reread a minimum of ten times, possibly by other people. as far as readers not liking the story, that's always been subjective.

[kenaressa.livejournal.com]

Mostly, I read...with my grand total of 3 fics thus far (and my lack of anything resembling confidence in my own writing) I don't have a beta, though I do beta for others. I tend to be a perfectionist with my own work (in all respects of my artistic endeavors) which I think has saved what I have written from the most common "new fic-writer" disasters...

When I beta, I try to say what was good about the fic, not just what's wrong with it. I think it helps make the corrections more palatable and also encorages the strengths in the author's writing.